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 Grafting on to a cherry tree 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:00 am
Posts: 2
Post Grafting on to a cherry tree
Hello,
I have no experience in grafting what so ever. So please excuse my ignorance.

I have a 1 yr old cherry tree and I was wondering if I could graft another fruit to it. The tree is doing extremely well. I live in southern ontario canada and winter can be a little difficult.
Would I be able to graft any more exotic fruits?

Thanks,
Philip


Thu May 11, 2006 9:06 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1147
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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Philip; I have no experience in budding what so ever ... but I'll suggest it as the best way to add a 'variety' to your 1 yr old cherry tree. I am not aware of "another fruit" that works with a cherry; I think the best you can do is to add another variety of cherry. If there's not another cherry tree in your area, you may need a pollinator - depending on what variety your tree is? While the bark is relatively thin on your young tree, Budding would work well to add an additional limb.

If you know your variety, and have few if any cherry trees in the neighborhood, or just want to do something I've never done ... the following site is very good with regard to "Budding Technique" http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/cass/ho ... ft/bud.htm

That means you would need to research a compatible / reliable cherry variety to pollinate the variety you have, procure a bud-stick of that variety later this summer, then 'follow the directions' and add it to your tree. If anyone knows of a more exotic fruit - that's compatible with a cherry - let us know... Otherwise, I think another cherry is about as "exotic" as you'll be able to get. And as far as cherries go, just getting them to consistently set fruit may be 'exotic' enough :wink:

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Thu May 11, 2006 7:42 pm
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:00 am
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Viron,
Thanks for the help.

Philip


Fri May 12, 2006 7:29 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Posts: 95
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Philip
I have no experience in the cold of your winters but just to let you know that grafting another cherry on your cherry tree is feasable.
Luther Burbank, pioneer plant breeder, grafted 500 different cherries on to one of his cherry trees.

Have fun!!
Ted


Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:14 am
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 9:18 am
Posts: 111
Location: Corvallis, Oregon USA
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On a similar but slightly different topic - anyone have any idea or knowledge on grafting a fruiting cherry onto a flowering cherry? While I was researching grafting apple trees, my mom started wondering if she could graft a fruiting variety onto her large flowering cherry; it's a very large tree (30' high, maybe 40' diameter) and about 60 years old. Sure would be neat if possible, the tree's beautiful in flower; but then the petals all drop and usually get turned into a mushy rotting matt by the spring Oregon rains! Sure would be nice to have a bit more payoff than just the showy blossoms & nice shade later in the year. Was just thinking of a branch or two, nothing major - and there's a fruiting cherry in the yard next door as a pollinator.
Thanks for the help, and any criticism welcome! Just a wild idea....
Dave


Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:38 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1147
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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I nearly did that for my Brother, but he sold the house... I've seen both white & pink blossoms on the same 'flowering' cherry trees, but have never noticed real cherries. And I've wondered the same thing...

Your mom's cherry tree is so massive - I doubt it would allow the sunlight necessary to hit the graft and make a decent limb? The only way to 'top-work' such a large tree is to remove a large portion of it, then pepper it with bark grafts! I wouldn't… I've (at the request of the owner) placed grafts near the ends of apple tree branches, where they did just fine … until a pruner or windstorm eliminated the end of that branch. If you just want to see if it will work, go ahead and place one near the end of a branch, where it will get plenty of sun. But make sure you take plenty of photos as it probably won't last very long out there.

Personally, I cringe at newly planted 'flower-only' fruit trees... Fruit trees flower too! …So why stop at gushy mats of fallen blossoms … when you can also trek through a driveway of rotting cherries (or have eaten them in their prime!) :P ? …Good idea, and question - let us know if you go for it!

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Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:56 pm
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 9:18 am
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon USA
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Gee, it sounds like I just need to try it then! I hadn't thought about the sunlight issue, but that's not a big deal; just have to try doing some budding out near the ends of a couple of branches I guess - even though the tree's huge & many of the branches are pretty high, a lot of the lower ones do arch back over and get within reach from the ground at the outer ends. Can always borrow the neighbor's orchard ladder to do that and pick cherries, assuming that they grow; and it isn't like losing branches to pruning is likely - almost no pruning other than occasional removal of dead or low branches has ever been done to the tree. Mom's been in the house since '70, so it's not not likely that's going to change soon.
Dave


Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:14 am
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:25 pm
Posts: 26
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[quote="Ted"]
Luther Burbank, pioneer plant breeder, grafted 500 different cherries on to one of his cherry trees.

Have fun!!
Ted[/quote]

Ted, that is interesting. Do you have reference to this? With all the available cherries that I can get my hands on, I only have access to just about 90 known cherry cultivars, not counting the accession not yet released numbers at research stations. 500 different cherry cultivars! Wow, I must have been asleep for a long while!


Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:31 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 88
Location: Essex, England Zone 8
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The UK collections list 295 cultivars, some of these are now known to be duplicates (following DNA analysis), no new varieties have been added since (I think) 1989 so 500 recognised cultivars seems totally plausible. In Burbank's time I reckon it'd have been near enough impossible to gather 500 known cultivars, but he was of course a hugely prolific nurseryman, allegedly raising 1000s if different plums so grafts of 500 of his own selections might well have been possible.

The UK collections:

http://brogdale.org/nfc_plants1.php?plantid=3


Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:17 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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I was surfing last night and found a "Homesteading" forum with questions about 'what readers could do with their crops of seedling cherries?' It was fun to read the various recipes and ideas... but it brought to mind several Homesteads (including mine) that have had an abundance of seedling trees.

An HOS member and friend, Bill Ward had bought such a place. It included an abandoned orchard with both cherry and European plumb thickets. There may have been 25 trees within a 10' X 10' area. My inherited seedling's were on the periphery of the 'yard,' but I'll use Bill's as an example of what can be done with seedling fruit: Hack them off above deer-damage-level and cleft graft them with known cultivars :P

Bill turned a mess into a productive orchard with multiple varieties of plum and cherries. Don't get me wrong - you can only graft cherry to cherry and plum to plum - but he had lots of both. And what an excellent opportunity to make something of nothing, or nearly nothing.

He'd collect more scion wood than anyone else at the HOS Scion Exchange, then go home and cleft graft it to the tops of the best candidates. And it didn't really matter if his percentage of 'takes' wasn't that great (I'll only get about a 50% take with cherries), he'd easily thin out the failures and train the successful! Though Bill's moved on, I can still envision the pretty orchard he established, and what an unbelievable selection of plum and cherries he'd accumulated. He'd speak of them like children.

...I didn't bother registering and posting this 'idea' on that Homestead site -- they can find us!

--And the same can be done with apple seedlings. My Neighbors & HOS members had a smattering of seedling apples in their upper pasture. I gathered a 'seasonal array' of the best and grafted them (above deer damage) to a half dozen or so of those seedling trees. My temporary tags faded a decade ago so we just refer to them as "Horse apples" - cause that's for who they were intended. Now neighbor Libby corrects me when I mention the Horse apples; "Horse apples?" - "Those are the best apples we grow!" … "Too bad we have to hike all the way up that hill to get them"…

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Last edited by Viron on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:22 pm
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:25 pm
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I was able to cram more than 355 fruiting cultivars unto 40 trees in 725 square feet of land. I have fresh fruits every week the entire year. Of course my harvest is whatever maximum you can get from 725 sq ft of land and not from 355 trees. My harvest is just spread the entire year.

Apples, peaches, neactarines and plums, there are thousands of known cultivars. Cherries only a few. If you naturally assume that each cherry seedling is different, then you can easily claim to have a zillion different cherries that you can graft but they will all be un-named yet. Most cherries are better off cross-pollinated so each seed is in fact a hybrid. Even if self-pollinated, the embryos are zygotic and would be a different recombination of genes.

One of the tricks of plant breeders to speed up maturity and fruiting of new hybridized cultivars is to graft the scion from hybrid seedlings unto mature trees. You can cut down in half the waiting time for fruits, and so that is the only way the claims to have grafted 500 different cherries to be true. Of course by this time most of those cherries would have been rejects by now and only the best ones we have selected remained, and we are left with just so few. I myself have 24 cherries on one tree.

I have grafted several cross species as well unto one tree. Have grafted together 10 kinds of Cydonia Oblonga, 8 kinds of Malus domestica, 8 cultivars of Pyrus communis, 5 cultivars of Pyrus pyrifolia together on Pyrus betulifolia. One of the best interstems to use would be Winter Banana Apples. It can accept both asian and european pears and can be grafted unto quinces as well. While quinces themselves can accept some apples, asian and european pears, but not all, so interstems are wonderful.

I also have 60 different kinds of citruses unto one tree. I have 43 kinds of persimmons grafted unto one tree. 28 kinds of apricots unto one tree, and many others like pluots, apriums, plumcots, peach cots, nectarines, peaches, almonds, peach plums, other complex hybrids, and even have native American plums, Russian plums and their hybrids. Gages, prunes, mirabelles as well as multi-grafted grapes. My apples, althoug I tend to go for the fireblight tolerant ones, I lose track of how many exactly as I change the cultivars constantly trying new ones each year and chopping off the ones that I didn't like.

I make aluminum tags out of soda cans. Cut into 1/2" by 1" strips and punch hole with a paper hole puncher, then use UV resistant garden ties. So I keep track of everything in databases, their bloom times, tastes, harvest time, diseases, and other things. You simply etch the name on the aluminum tags by placing it over on piece of cardboard or paper plate using ball point pen. The name can be readable for a good 50 years when the aluminum can would have disintegrated by then. You can make about 20 tags per can, just use a small thin sized scissor to maneuver the curve surface of the soda can.

There are many advantages to multi-graft and one must be prepared how to balance the tree via regrafting. They are quite nice to look at.

Here's a sample of my 40-n-1 plum:
How many kinds can one tree hold? This one tree has 40 cultivars, all fruiting.
Here are samples of plums and plumcots. Mostly Japanese plums and their hybrids. Not shown are my European and Russian types on the same tree

Tree is loaded from the knee high branch level to the top of the canopy

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Benny's Green Gage. Grafted this year, fruited this year!

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Asian Green Gage Plum:

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Santa Rosa Plum, one of my favorites for wine making

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No, these are not mangoes... Golden Nectar plum. An Heirloom type
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Inca Plum, another heirloom type:
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Plumcot
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Assorted plums. I have many different colored plums, but only 4 types that are purple-leaves and purple colored fruits: Vesuvius, Hollywood, Kuban Burgundy and another Russian type

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Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:43 pm
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:25 pm
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Today's fruit bowl: Pluots, plumcots, apriums, apricots, white fleshed peaches

Image
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And of course the cherries to keep this on topic. Cherries harvested today:
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Cherries for wine making, this is about 3 gallons worth of cherry:
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And here's a few cherries left:

the unreachable portion of Rainier cherries:
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Merton Late Cherries
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Van Cherries hidden underneath the plums
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Assorted Cherries intentionally left for monitoring flavor through the late season
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Starkrimson Cherry
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Spanish Yellow Cherries
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Other assorted mulit-grafted cherries protected by two eyes. Birds are uneasy with the crude eyes made by my youngest boy.
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Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:46 pm
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:25 pm
Posts: 26
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And to think that these cherries were T-budded together into one major limb late in the spring:
Image
By joereal at 2007-06-28


And by fall that season, it has achieved a fan like arrangement that I had hoped.
Image
By joereal at 2007-06-28


Cherries are one of the easiest to graft. Cleft grafting or whip and tongue in dormant late winter, T-bud during budswell, and bark graft during early spring to bloom time, they will all work at great success rate. so go ahead and try them.

You can also bark-graft cherries this summer, even T-bud during the fall.


Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:58 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:54 am
Posts: 88
Location: Essex, England Zone 8
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Wow Joe that is really something, spectacular.


Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:16 am
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 417
Location: SW Washington
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Joe, you continue to be a huge inspiration. I believe it was your bark graftign tutorial that got me over my inhibitions to give grafting a try and now I'm really into it.

You mentioned you have multi-grafted grapes. What technique do you use? Do you have pictures of your grapes on yor GW profile?

I'd love to see some pictures from further back of your various fruit trees. The fruits themselves are obviously beautiful, but I'd like to get a better sense for what the trees look like and some sense of the spacing and proportion.

Do you know of any cherries that produce quality fruit and also have some genetic dwarfing? I have a lonely Compact Stella tree. I'm not quite ready to graft vigorous cultivars onto it and try to fight them into balance. I have enough other trees to practice the balancing act on between the apples, pears and plums. But if there were a couple of varieties that might behave a bit I'd probably want to give them a try on my cherry.

At least one of your pictures seemed to show plums and cherries on the same tree. I thought that was possible, in spite of some other comments in this thread. Can you confirm that is indeed the case. The original poster seemed to like the idea of having something more exotic than just some more cherry varieties.


Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:26 am
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