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 Anna and Dorsett maybe Fuji 
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Location: South Louisiana
Post Anna and Dorsett maybe Fuji
I live in south Louisiana where the summer months are hot and humid and I have been lead to believe that Anna and Dorsett apples are the only apples that will do well here. Recently on another forum, I was advised that the Fuji would do well in our climate. Could this be true?
I know that the Fuji requires a long hot growing season, but our chill hours here are low on a scale for apples.
I truly love the taste and flavor of the Fuji and would like to give it a chance to grow and produce here in the humid south, but would I be wasting my time?
I have decided that contrary to the nay Sayers that I would try to purchase a couple of Fuji trees, but it is impossible to locate them locally. Every nursery repeatedly tells me that they will not produce here. Searching the web, I have found that the Fuji has a chill hour of 200 to 400 hours, which would fall well within our climate.
What do you think my chances would be to grow and produce the Fuji? Also could you recommend a reputable nursery near my area that handles these wonderful apples?
Karpes


Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:16 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Riverside, Southern California USDA Zone 10a
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karpes:

Put the mouse down as you're going to need both hands. First stick both thumbs in your ears, and point your fingers straight up and wiggle them. Next, stick your tounge out and make a raspberry sound. Practice that so you'll be ready when somebody else tells you that some apple won't grow there.

Image

Look closely in the photo above, and you'll see palm trees in the background. I will say that Fuji takes at least five years to start bearing, even on a dwarfing rootstock. Some people may have mistaken no fruit for inadequate chilling hours. However, once it starts bearing there's no stopping it, and it laughs at the heat (the more the better).

While you're at it, order Williams' Pride and Liberty. They will bear the years disease messes with the Fuji. You can order all of them from Georgia at www.johnsonnursery.com

Applenut

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Kevin Hauser
Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery
Riverside, Southern California
USDA Zone 10a


Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:38 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Location: South Louisiana
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Thanks Applenut
The word is spreading that apples can be grown in our area, but the nurseries don’t seem eager to accept this.
From your last statement it would seem to indicate that the Fuji is susceptible to diseases. Would the Williams pride and Liberty be better choices for disease resistance? Also do these verities produce equally good tasting apples?
Is the only benefit of a dwarf apple tree, the fact that it is just smaller and easier to manage? I suppose a smaller tree would produce less fruit than a full size. Also do dwarf trees normally produce fruit at an younger age?
Thanks for sharing your experience with me.
Karl


Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:34 am
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Riverside, Southern California USDA Zone 10a
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Karl:

Disease is a problem in any humid climate, which is why most apples are grown in the desert of central Washington. Liberty and Williams' Pride are a lot easier to grow because of this. The quality on both is quite good, but not exactly like Fuji, but much, much better than you can get in the store (I know, not a high benchmark).

Dwarfing rootstocks like M7 can still get 15' tall, but bear heavily and produce early in their lifetime. Big trees spaced far apart are a thing of the past, with most commercial orchards planting tiny trees 3' apart and keeping them in reach (no ladders).

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Kevin Hauser
Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery
Riverside, Southern California
USDA Zone 10a


Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:57 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Location: South Louisiana
Post 
Applenut
Your recommendation of the Liberty apple has diminished my desire to plant a Fuji. I have been reading every article that I could find and all are favorable. It seems too good to be true. Disease resistant, stores well and highly rated in taste test. Are there any hidden flaws?
Thanks Karl


Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:11 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1147
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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Karl;

Keep in mind, you'll need a pollinizer for Liberty, or so I've read... If you went with the suggested, "William's Pride" as a companion, or pollinator tree, you might have a winning combo..?

The following is a comprehensive pollination chart, and it appears both Liberty and William's Pride are relatively, to early bloomers; and, they're compatible pollinators.

http://raintreenursery.com/apple.pdf

...And, if you wanted to play around with the most vigorous of your trees, graft a limb of Fuji on - just for the challenge! Have fun :P

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Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:05 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
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Location: South Louisiana
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Thanks Viron
Also, do you think that Dorsett, Anna and Williams Pride would cross pollinate each other? I have not found any pollination charts that would indicate if this was possible.


Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:50 pm
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 59
Post 
"From your last statement it would seem to indicate that the Fuji is susceptible to diseases. Would the Williams pride and Liberty be better choices for disease resistance?"

Try Ashley Apple. It tastes like Jonagold and it is a "Malus sieversii" from Kazakhstan. It was found to be resistant to apple scab in greenhouse test in Geneva Experimental Station, NY.

Marc Camargo
fruit-tree.com nursery
Visit us at http://www.fruit-tree.com
Our motto: "Preservation by dissemination"


Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:36 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
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Location: South Louisiana
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Marc
Could you offer more information about this variety? Like chill hours and approximate ripening dates as well as possible pollinators for the Ashley apple. How would it do in a humid hot climate 12 miles from the Gulf of Mexico? There seems to be very little information on this variety.
I am totally confused about the chill factor for apples. Applenut, I believe is extremely knowledgeable (read his book Apples in the city twice) on any subject concerning apples, but this contradicts everything that I am reading from the universities of Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi and Alabama.
I like thinking out of the box but there is so much contradiction on chill hours and zones that an apple will grow. If you look at the online nurseries you can see that one apple is recommended for Zone 8 and another nursery states that it is good for zone 9.
I visited a local nursery that has a multitude of fruit trees growing on the property. I asked if he had grown anything other than Anna and Dorset. He told me that he had tried Fuji and Granny Smith, but removed them in the fourth year. He said that the trees were beautiful but would not bare fruit. From what I have read, he gave up a year too soon.
I am caught up in this Microwave world that we live in these days and I surely don’t want to wait five years for a Fuji to bare fruit. The William’s Pride as I understand will bare fruit at an early age but can it take the sauna climate of south Louisiana? Applenut has proven that many verities will grow in the hot dry climate of southern California. The University of Florida states that early apple varieties are not as vulnerable to the pressures of insects and disease that comes with the summer rains.
Can anyone say with certainty that anything other than Anna, Dorsett, Ein Shimmer or Tropic sweet will grow and produce in Zone 9?
Applenut, I have not given up on you, but I just don’t see any McIntosh apples growing here.
Karl


Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:03 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Riverside, Southern California USDA Zone 10a
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Marc:

There's a story about a traveler in the far north that was attempting to cross a frozen river, but was extremely timid about venturing out onto the ice fearing that he would fall through. His journey was urgent however, so he gingerly stepped out onto the ice and was waiting to hear a crack and the ice cave way. However, about that time around the corner comes a farmer driving a fully-loaded sleigh and a team of horses using the frozen river as a roadway, the same river the traveler was afraid to barely step on.

I look at that as the way we treat apples. We wonder if some variety might grow in our area, and then find out that Wealthy is grown in Nicaragua and Honduras and the most popular apple grown in Indonesia is Rome Beauty, which is especially flavorful in a warm tropical climate (and is self-fertile if you want to try it). I just shipped a set of our Cider Press Plans to Saudi Arabia, and Egypt also grows apples. I keep waiting for apple "experts" to scoff at the No-chilling-required theory, but all of what I hear is that they have suspected it for a while also.

There can be several reasons a tree won't fruit besides not enough chilling hours, and also reasons why a variety is not grown in a local area, such as poor color or texture or no disease resistance. Apples were once far more extensively grown here in lowland Southern California, but succombed to market pressures from imported Washington State apples by the mid-1930's, leaving people scratching their heads wondering why a local desert region is named "Apple Valley" but there's not an apple tree in sight. But like I said, the apple doesn't have to be as good as the one grown in Pennsylvania; it just has to be better than the ones in the supermarket.

Williams Pride has succeeded in every area it has been tested in, including the tropics. Bugs and disease claim most of the crops in some years even in the mountains of North Carolina, and so I'd say that was your challenge more so than chilling hours. Be bold, be brave! We just harvested the best Fuji's I ever tasted.

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Kevin Hauser
Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery
Riverside, Southern California
USDA Zone 10a


Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:54 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post 
Karl - everybody - this banter's great! Our Organization is based in the Willamette Valley, Oregon, and most discussions have been relatively 'local,' so to read of those pushing the apple-growing boundaries is fascinating! But as such, I've little to add, only to learn ~

You asked about "Dorsett, Anna and Williams Pride" pollination capabilities / requirements? Here's what I think: the more 'exotic' you get with varieties the more difficulty you'll have finding reliable information. Many are simply too new. What I'd do is search for bloom times; most apples appear to cross with others, but their bloom-times must match. Be on the lookout for "Triploids" -- or pollen sterile varieties - though that's a generally noted characteristic. "Tip-bearers" are quirky too, but that's more of a pruning consideration...

It looks like you're still doing your homework! I've always found that nearly as exciting as planting the tree or eating the results! Have fun - and again - the banter is brilliant :D

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Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:40 pm
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 59
Post 
"Could you offer more information about this variety? Like chill hours and approximate ripening dates as well as possible pollinators for the Ashley apple. How would it do in a humid hot climate 12 miles from the Gulf of Mexico? There seems to be very little information on this variety."

Karl,
The Ashley apple is a variety that you won't find much information on anywhere else besides my website. Go to http://www.fruit-tree.com/newsletter/november2006.pdf and you will find some pictures of this variety as well as some information about it. It is a Malus sieversii and not a Malus xdomestica which is the botanical name for the common apple. This variety was selected from the wild forests of apples in Kazakhstan and it was tested in Geneva, NY for apple scab and found to be resistant in greenhouse tests. The taste is like Jonagold, aromatic, and the flesh is firm and crisp. Nobody has tried this apple along the Gulf of Mexico and I am quite familiar with the climate of Austin. I saw apple trees growing in Austin, TX and a friend of mine said that there are years when he gets huge crops but last year he didn't get many. I can't say that they will thrive in your area and at the same time I can't say that they won't. I would recommend that you don't use a very dwarfing rootstock because in my opinion that tends to delay fruiting. The chill hours for this variety probably would be in the higher end, but I am not sure about that. The trees have definitely a nice shape similar to ornamental crab apple trees where the branches are well spaced and well placed around the main trunk. I would use a crab apple such as Whitney for pollination just because crab apples are good pollinators. One thing I know for sure, there is nobody else out there selling Malus sieversii. I am trying because the fruit is really tasty and it is my mission to find varieties that are naturally disease resistance and that can be organically grown without chemical sprays. It ripens med to late season

Marc Camargo
fruit-tree.com nursery
Visit us at http://www.fruit-tree.com
Our motto: "Preservation by dissemination"


Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:29 pm
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 59
Post 
Kevin,
People are trying to push the envelope on both sides of the spectrum. In Oregon, we are aiming for palm trees, guavas, loquats, persimmons and pomegranates while in California people push for tropicals and in your case ultra temperates such as apples. There are many genetic variations within a species whose traits may be adapted to a particular area. Within reason, one may succeed if persistent. My Holy Grail is apricots and peaches that are well adapted to the cool and maritime springs of the Pacific Northwest. I have some ideas on how to succeed but it has taken years and many trials and errors. Keep pursuing, keep trying and that's how we learn. I believe that you can get excellent Fujis in southern California because they can take a lot of heat, plus the combination of cool nights and warm days bring out the flavor.

Marc Camargo
fruit-tree.com nursery
Visit us at http://www.fruit-tree.com
Our motto: "Preservation by dissemination"


Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:38 pm
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 59
Post More info on Malus sieversii
You can find more info on Malus sieversii by visiting this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malus_sieversii

Marc Camargo
fruit-tree.com nursery
Visit us at http://www.fruit-tree.com
Our motto: "Preservation by dissemination"

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Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:14 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Location: South Louisiana
Post 
Marc
It’ interesting that you mention Crabapple as a pollination source since they actually grow very well here. I wonder if this would be an indicator or measure as to how apples would do here. Is a crabapple so different than another apple?
The same is true for the Bradford pear, which excels here but the Bartlett will not last long with out constant chemical warfare.
By the way, Austin Texas is a beautiful place but the climate it totally different from the coast of Louisiana or Texas. Only about an 8-hour drive N/W from me but much dryer.
Karl


Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:41 am
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