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 scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/ pic) 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:08 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Mulino, OR (Clackamas County)
Post scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/ pic)
Hello.

I received some scions in the mail today. Alas, it looks like they're already growing. Should I even bother grafting them? Or should I try to get new scions from the scion exchange?

Thanks.

Mitch

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Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:11 pm
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:48 pm
Posts: 12
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
The first pic looks ok but the other 2 I would say no way. I've tried to graft sticks like that and have been sadly disappointed.


Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:45 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1166
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
Mitch, it depends on how rare the ‘cherry’ scion wood is. I’ve grafted apple scions where I’d break out the ‘center bud,’ which is the bud that pushes (and carefully dab in a little Doc Farwell’s in the hole), and allowed the two (I’m sure there’s a technical name for them) buds on either side of it, so small they can hardly be seen, to develop (make sure you dodge them with the grafting compound). Did up about 4 different apple varieties (of two grafts each) that way for a friend and he reported that every one took.

Cherry, I don’t know. If it’s a common variety, I’d look for some tight budded stuff elsewhere. If it’s an unknown from the family homestead – I’d graft them with two or three buds, snap off the top two and leave the third in tact – and see what happens.

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Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:58 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:08 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Mulino, OR (Clackamas County)
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
Quote:
the ‘center bud,’ which is the bud that pushes (and carefully dab in a little Doc Farwell’s in the hole), and allowed the two (I’m sure there’s a technical name for them) buds on either side of it, so small they can hardly be seen, to develop


Viron, are you saying that there are three buds where folks typically only look for - and therefore only see - one? Just want to make sure I'm clear on what you're describing. If that's the case I might try breaking off all but the lowest of the obvious buds and hope those overlooked buds make their presence known.


Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:07 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1166
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
Viron, are you saying that there are three buds where folks typically only look for - and therefore only see - one?

On apples, there are ‘three buds,’ I’m not sure if that applies to cherries… If it does, that technique may work. But again, is it worth wasting your rootstock if it doesn’t, and are the varieties so rare you can’t find properly stored tight-budded scions elsewhere, like our upcoming propagation fair (scion exchange)?

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Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:37 pm
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:55 pm
Posts: 16
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
Can anyone speak (with authority) about what is going on biologically that informs the success rate of a graft with, for example, buds as far along as those pictured above, vs one where there's been less/no emergence?


Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Willamette Valley near Scio
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
wildforager wrote:
The first pic looks ok but the other 2 I would say no way. I've tried to graft sticks like that and have been sadly disappointed.

Yeah, they should all work. do the whip and tongue thing or whatever and be sure you cover the entire scion with glue after wrapping. Glue will prevent all moisture loss (barring bad grafting tech).

I have received plum wood from UCDavis in February, after all chill hours were met for them in California, and the darn scions actually had tiny leaves trying to grow in the refrigerator (after my months of storing them). Just grafted them ordinary style anyway in Mid-May, covered everything with glue and they all took. Grew right through the glue.

Doc Farwells is the glue I use. If you can protect your graft from rain for 3 weeks or so, you could make do with water based Elmers school glue!


Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:01 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1166
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: scion breaking dormancy - should I bother grafting? (w/
Can anyone speak (with authority) about what is going on biologically that informs the success rate of a graft with, for example, buds as far along as those pictured above, vs one where there's been less/no emergence?


…how about a ‘non-authoritive’ version? Here’s a shot: As the plant nutrient’s begin to flow and feed the bud an interruption in that flow will begin to starve the developing bud. Starved of nutrients and moisture, the newly forming tissue begins to dry and die.

Initially, the buds in the scion are fed by the living cells within the scion itself and limited to that tiny store of nutrients. Often times a ‘bad graft’ will appear to ‘take,’ as the buds swell and leaves begin to push …only to dry and die shortly thereafter. As the cells knit at the graft union it takes awhile before they can provide an uninterrupted flow of nutrients to the scion.

If the scion is pushing when grafted, much depends on how far it’s developed and how much of the ‘local store’ of nutrients it’s used before the graft union is completed to the point it begins sending additional energy. The “success rate” would likely depend on the degree of development, temperature and the precision of the graft itself.

..now bring on the Authority :roll:

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Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:21 pm
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