I have read all I can find, but it is still difficult to figure out what kind of grape trellis to build for grape cuttings I have. Most resources and pictures are of commercial growers.

Books seem to say some grapes grow up and some hang down, and the trellis type depends on this factor, with grapes the grow up needing a second, higher wire.

Does anyone know if these grapes grow up or down or if I am just misunderstanding something essential about grape growing?
Canadice and Himrod

Can I just build two T shaped structures with 4 X 4's (securely planted in concrete), aat 6 feet apart, about 4 feet tall with 12 gauge wire stretched between from each end of the T, letting a main grape 'trunk' grow up to the wire and then out to each side along the wire, with Canadice and Himrod grapes hangning down? Or will I need a second, higher wire?

Thanks!
Brian in Portland, OR

Sounds like a good general plan, Brian.

OSU puts out a great pamphlet, available on line about pruning grapes and one on kiwis. Berry, Nut, or something like that it's called.
John S
PDX OR

Found what I was looking for between two web sites, which I'll list here in case anyone else happens upon this post looking for similar answers:

http://www.homeorchardsociety.org/article/38/

http://www.extension.org/pages/31129/ch ... lis-system

I built my two-wire grape trellis using 7' round fence posts and 14 ga galvanized steel electric fence wire. I didn't cement in the posts. Top wire is at about 5', bottom at 3'. You can get the supplies at a farm store like Wilco. I also put in tighteners so I could add tension later on (search on, "Dare Products 1703 Wire Strainer/Tightener", or similar, about $3 each). If I built another trellis I'd only put on the top wire and have it a little lower. The vines on the bottom wire just get shaded by the top vines and don't produce much anyway.

Treated 4x4 posts might last you 10 years before they rot enough to replace. I know a guy that replaces his on that rotation schedule, even though he buys treated lumber every time. He talks about it like its a pain in the @$$.

I used Home Depot 8 foot galv fencing posts (metal) in cement. Also used their galv top-rail system for chain-link fencing for overhead, then place galv cattle panels over that. Been in place 10 years now, not a bit of rot or rust anywhere. Should be good for another hundred years!

And you can plant your grapes now, and take a year or two to get your structure up. No need to hurry unless you are compulsive about getting things done!

If your ground is deep and rich, maybe plant every 16 feet apart (the exact length of one cattle panel). If your ground is poorer, maybe plant 8 feet apart -- that way you can get two plants per cattle panel, if you choose to go that route.

Thanks for the replies. Three of my grapes from cuttings growing good in pots for the moment - canadice, himrod, and concord. I'll try to get my area done and put them in the ground in the fall. Looking at galvanized fence posts - good tip - didn't know that stuff lasted that long.
Brian

The most important trellis feature for urban grapes is how it keeps racoons from eating all your grapes in a single evening. This happens to our grapes every year unless we take action. Electric fencing works well if the racoons are gounded when they touch it. Otherwise, elevate the grapes on poles and make the poles or posts unclimbable with aluminum flashing or something else. Or you can get a large dog and leave him out every night starting at least 2 weeks before grapes ripen.