View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:07 am



Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Red fleshed apple varieties 
Author Message

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:07 am
Posts: 6
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
wildforager wrote:
Steven, What you're saying about trademarks really resonates with me. I'd like to see the article that you referenced but the website must have taken it down or something. One Green World has trade marked their Cornus mas but thankfully they still occasionally have the true name in the description. Yellow is Yantarny, Sunrise is Marina, Red Star is Vidubetskii, etc. This could really get confusing all across the board.


http://www.plantdelights.com/Articles/Garden-Perennials/Perennial-Plant/Plant-Nursery and scroll down to Trademarks in Horticulture - Their Misuse and Abuse


Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:59 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 9
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
The article is there. They are redirecting that address to the home page for some reason. click the LEARN tab, then the PLANT ARTICLES tab and scroll down the page. It's there. The argument is simple. That rules were established for plant nomenclature that each plant should have a common name that is the reference point to avoid confusing everyone. Naming a plant with a number or giving it a trademark name only, mean that it get's called by it's trademark only, which assures the trademark holder more profit. In the case of OGW, they probably just do it to look like they have something unique with a nifty marketable name, or maybe they think they can popularize stuff under the new name and it will funnel traffic to them or mean that they can collect royalties if it become well known. Either way, it's rather annoying. It puts small growers and collectors in an odd spot. What does a grower do if they want to grow gold rush and sell it? They can't call it coop 38 if they want to sell apples and having a trademark name is a disincentive. If they rename it, then everyone loses track of what's what and they lose the advantage of selling a popular apple with a known name... and further popularizing that apple under a common name that everyone can use and know. It's just a way of trying to hold onto profit after a patent runs out. At least Cripps Pink has a real name, although it's not exactly a classic! Still, with the trademark pink lady being so well known, we can hardly converse about it without qualification. I'm thinking a good convention is to use the real name and put the trademark name in quotes.

What it comes down to, yet again, is a conflict of interests. Our interests as the public, and as collectors, are not the same as those of large scale breeders and the universities that fund them and whoever funds those. They produce some good work, but I guess I'm unconvinced that tactics like this are necessary for the work to occur. I think the focus used to be more altruistic and ultimately for the public good, whereas now tactics are increasingly about profit motives and extending those as far down the line as possible. Patents have been extended to pollen now and the way things are going, it seems likely that public interest will continue to be marginalized. There is probably no better way to take our interest back, or put it to the forefront, than participating in homescale breeding and growing, and basically getting back to more the way things used to be where we are involved with that sort of thing. By choosing to let go of that, we have handed over our interest and power to increasingly powerful money interests. My latest blog post was on making multi-grafted "frankentrees". I think for fruit, popularizing that idea is a perfect way to bring diversity back to our lives and the table in a way that can make issues like this less abstract. Point being that we can't just talk about food diversity and leave it up to a few hip farmers out there, we have to take back our role in the whole thing to reclaim the soul of our food so it's not a painted whore on a shelf in some store given a fancy working name disguising the humiliation and battering it went through on it's way there. Sorry to be so blunt and no offense to prostitution which I don't actually see negatively as an idea, but I think in the worst sense of the real life phenomenon, characterized by abuse and disempowerment, it's a valid analogy.

I read a lot of old literature on apples and the fruit working groups of the past were always getting together and trying to sort out confusion around common names in different regions. The also seemed to be re-naming them a lot, which must have added to the confusion. i'm not sure what the solution is, but I feel like we need one because, thanks to the internet, fruit hobbyism is growing rapidly from what I can tell, and so is public interests and diversity on small scale operations. Maybe a group like HOS or some central place, could keep a database of names. As a community, we could give common names in a democratic way to fruits that have unusable numbers for names or to those that have only trademark names, and popularize those in the name of the public interest, in which I would include small scale growers. The article does say that if a plant or thing becomes known only by it's trademark name, the trademark can lose it's validity. I think the gist was that a trademark should be about who the company and the marketer are as a brand identifier, rather than what the object is. If it becomes what the object is universally known as, there are grounds to challenge it. I'm as tempted as the next person to re-name stuff bearing dumb or unusable names. It would be nice if we weren't forced into that position whenever possible though. I'd like to hear more thoughts on this, because I've been thinking about it quite a bit and what the best solution is for the public interest.


Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:10 am
Profile

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 10:57 am
Posts: 1354
Location: Portland, OR
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
This has been a problem for apple identification for a long time. I know the few people who are real good at apple ID in the HOS will tell you three names for one apple. I do agree that it seems that greed is the motive for many of the attempts at name confusion. I guess we can make an effort to use the common name, even if we use the trademarked name too, people will see the connection.
JohN S
PDX OR


Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:12 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 23
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
i have the red-flesh variety Firecracker. Had our first one this year, a little on the small side but it was tasty, although a bug got a third of it.


Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:58 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 23
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
Steven, i emailed you a week ago, wondering if it didn't go through, maybe you are just busy.
my email is my username here @mail.com


Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:03 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 10:57 am
Posts: 1354
Location: Portland, OR
Post Re: Red fleshed apple varieties
I think that Steven is no longer the webmaster. I think the new guy's named Jesse.
John S
PDX OR


Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:39 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 417
Location: SW Washington
Post forum management
I think noahpants is addressing another forum user (also named Steven) about his post.

But, it's true, the Home Orchard Society website is in the process of being improved with new forum support to follow.


Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:20 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: