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Home Orchard Society Forums - View topic - Grafting on to a cherry tree
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 Grafting on to a cherry tree 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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I Agree :shock: Location - location - Location? And when's the Tour?

I enjoyed, salivated, and learned from your amazing post, but I've got some questions / remarks about your last statements: "Cherries are one of the easiest to graft. Cleft grafting or whip and tongue in dormant late winter, T-bud during budswell, and bark graft during early spring to bloom time, they will all work at great success rate. so go ahead and try them. You can also bark-graft cherries this summer, even T-bud during the fall."

I've had it confirmed locally (the Willamette Valley, Oregon) that dormant top-working Cherries is one of the most difficult, or 'iffy' of fruit tree grafts. And as mentioned in my prior post, I (along with others) have only about a 50% take with cleft-grafted cherries. {Whip & tongue bench-grafting appears to do fine.} I've wondered if it's their "peffy" or nearly hollow scion wood that can mash between heavy stocks? Other's have suggested they've an excessive sap flow. And we've also learned to 'do them first,' earlier than anything else.

We've another poster from Southern CA (Amazing - another Eden), his descriptions and handiwork have also blown me away. But apparently nothing actually goes dormant far enough down there? A concept difficult for me to envision; young shoots simply push off old leaves as the 'sap' always flows? Like a Fourth Dimension!

OK, let me figure this out; "Cherries are one of the easiest to graft. Cleft grafting or whip and tongue in dormant late winter" --- OK, other than the easy part (we actually do them the same as any other local fruit tree), I got that. But: "T-bud during budswell, and bark graft during early spring to bloom time..." --- To T-bud the bark must be slipping (sap flowing), but by then the buds are swelling. Once the buds begin to swell, or push, they're still viable to bud? "Up here" that's likely too fine a line; if you're where the bark's always slipping, I guess you'd only have to find a mature bud..? Our bark will often tear as our buds begin to swell. And I've never heard of using a dormant bud stick, saved (refrigerated) and budded after sap flow?

And: "You can also bark-graft cherries this summer, even T-bud during the fall." --- We T-bud in late summer, when the buds are mature, the sap's flowing, and there's time enough to bond before dormancy. By "bark-grafting cherries" - what are you using to graft? Dormant scions, 'fresh' scions, or buds? I'm not doubting anything you've accomplished; I'm actually quite amazed, but I'd hate to give the impression to those of us living where this can't be done to "go ahead and try them." Unless you're willing to field the multitude of questions as to why they didn't work :wink:

I'm also curious what you end up with as an eventual tree with all those limbs? Typically on a vase pruned tree I'll leave 4 scaffold limbs; you've 4 times that many! I realize they'll fruit on first year growth, but what about 5 years on? It almost looks as if a rotational culling would / could / should take place; plant a seedling (cheap), pepper its trunk with bud grafts, allow a couple years of production, then remove and repeat?

I felt like one of Pavlov's dogs - salivating over those photos... I tried to judge by ripeness just how far you are ahead of me, or how far south? I just thinned my Japanese plums; they're not near color, but trying! Man - if you're in CA I can certainly understand why it's so crowded! Have you plenty of water? Though the drip irrigation you described is likely the answer. Everything looks so 'clean!' Do you spray? Do you belong to a fruit-growing organization or just doing your own thing? ...I know - lot's of questions! But what do you expect after an Amazing display like that?

I'll appreciate any answers; you can even take your time. And thanks so much for answering the citrus question ... I've stopped dreaming of them ~

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Last edited by JoeReal on Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:54 am
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Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:21 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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Joe -- I'm impressed beyond words... and that's rare. I'm also digesting your gracious and generous answers - thank you. …while pondering your offer of a tour...

Your associations explain a lot, yet your enthusiasm is obviously the key. ...I'm still sitting here shaking my head sideways in amazement - I am overwhelmed.

You, and people like you are why I remain active in HOS; if for no other reason – you/they're living examples of someone who's got it worse than I do!

Welcome to our Forum! You’ve got me grinning from ear to ear :D I only hope we've a reason for you to sick around~

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Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:23 pm
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Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:40 am
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Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:32 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
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Joe... you helped me spend 3.5 hours on my riding mower yesterday - Thanks! But I'm afraid you could get me into all kinds of trouble with your information on what I'd describe as 'soft tissue grafting,' or perhaps 'growing season grafting.' I'd noticed your use of Parafilm, and quickly realized wrapping the scion (too), except for the buds was the key; the scion doesn't dry out. I also looked over your extensive photo show - Fantastic :P

As I'm slowing digesting your info, I've had that feeling you get after acquiring a 'new tool' - where all of a sudden you've a spectrum of new capabilities and projects bouncing around in your head. It was great to have all this to think over as I mowed around, under and past my fruit trees and vines. But I've had a difficult time envisioning anything that would give (me) a long-term benefit from the ability to basically graft year round? Though I was sizing up 'new shoots' of this season that could 'now' be cleft grafted to larger stocks (or bark grafted), so long as they weren't crushed by the force of a large clefted stock, and have time to 'harden off' before winter.

I've friends that just planted a new pear tree, I told them I'd graft a pollinator to it - a Flemish Beauty (whatever that is?). Instead of using them as my first budding experiment, I could put something on right now!? I'd hate to experiment (to that degree) with friends... And I do fear the coming heat of summer on such tender tiny shoots... And, I'd have to locate some Parafilm? But most likely I'm going to give this more thought…

You're like a one-man Experiment Station! Have you spent time in any UC Davis Ag classes? Or Enology? Up here, in (Oregon's) "Wine County," those Davis graduates get all the 'inside' winery work ... while us locals are left to run forklifts, or pour. And, all that wine? You must get fruit from beyond your yard..? We've a couple guys into Cider making up here, you do any of that? If I had the ambition - I've got the press... Their every batch is so different; do you find any consistency in your wines? And I was amazed to find you're so far north, but also noted the hard freeze you apparently dealt with.

You're doing some amazing stuff, and like I said, I'm perusing my yard/orchard wondering how I might apply it..? I'm also pondering a 'virtual tour' of my place; I'll have to get together with the brains of this Forum for some photo-posting advice. I've a few in Photo Bucket, I see you've used ImageShack ... but I'm afraid you've got me on the technical side too! …But it reminds me of playing tennis - the only way you get better is playing with someone who's better than you! Tennis anyone?

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Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:22 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 pm
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Location: SW Washington
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Viron,

You can order parafilm from Midwest Vinyard Supply:

or from Orchard Valley Supply:

In either case its about $2 a roll for the 1/2" by 90' rolls that I prefer. The 1" rolls are about twice the price per length and are more cumbersome to wrap on small diameter scions.

Orchard Valley offers better pricing on a dozen rolls but Midwest has a better selection of grafting rubbers. I'm guessing you should be able to get 50-100 grafts per roll so its a couple of cents per graft. I foot of tape goes a long way because its very stretchy.


Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:12 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 426
Location: SW Washington
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Joe,

I know this thread is bouncing around, but I'd like to come back to something you said about grafting your grapes.

You said you successfully bark grafted this season. Wow! How did the grape bark grafting differ from your citrus tutorial, or was it essentially the same? Did you graft dormant grape scions to mature grape bark? Did you have to do anything to control sap bleeding?

I was planning to try dormant scion to green stock this summer, although I've had to reassess many of my plans due to an injury.


Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:18 pm
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