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 Interstem grafting 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
Any thoughts on this? Would you do the first whip/tongue graft and then do the 2nd one at 90 degrees to that? Do you do both in the same direction?It probably doesn't matter but what are you opinions. Also, should I take pictures and make a webpage presentation of my attempt? Thanks.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:40 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: Interstem grafting
gkowen wrote:
How long was the stem before the scion? 6 inches? Thanks for the replies.


gkowen wrote:
Any thoughts on this? Would you do the first whip/tongue graft and then do the 2nd one at 90 degrees to that? Do you do both in the same direction? It probably doesn't matter but what are you opinions. Also, should I take pictures and make a webpage presentation of my attempt? Thanks.


Greg, were those Q’s for me? If so, I don’t remember the interstem length of the graft I did, just did as requested. You’ll have to ask Jade about the length...

Secondly - and again, I don’t clearly remember; it was near the end of a (very) long day. I ‘think’ I did the top scion first (cultivar to interstem), afraid to disturb the interstem to rootstock connection if working from the bottom up. I believe I made all cuts first, ‘dry fitted,’ then wrapped. The hard part was wanting to talk with the two of our forum boys while concentrating on this duel graft - it’s always a blast to finally meet!

'Direction' didn’t seem a factor; just the usual attempt to match diameters and, in this case, leave the requested length of interstem. As the root energy would hopefully speed to the second splice (from the first), there’d be little reason to allow bud growth (beyond a few leaves) on the interstem, so no ‘aiming required.’

If you’d like to photograph the process, that could be interesting - just keep it clean – wouldn’t want to scare anyone off :P

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Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:12 am
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
You mean I can't take photos of the stitches I require after I am done grafting? I am glad I have a brother who is a dr. He sews pretty well. Last year was my first year for not needing stitches twice during grafting season. I think my knife was dull. I will document it and do some followups. Might as well let others learn from my mistakes.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:43 am
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Willamette Valley near Scio
Post Re: Interstem grafting
gkowen wrote:
Do you do both in the same direction?

If by "direction" you mean polarity, yes direction is important. The interstem has a good chance of failing if you install it backwards, meaning distal end of interstem grafted to distal end of rootstock.

Distal end of rootstock should be connected to proximal end of any scion. Distal end of interstem connects with proximal end of final scion.

If you choose to graft a lengthy interstem the first year, I really don't see a problem if you can keep all the resultant interstem-buds rubbed out as they try to grow. The advantage of such a long piece might just be a greater nutrient and water reservoir, making it likelier to succeed.

I would probably carve out all the interstem buds with my grafting knife before grafting it up. Then cover the whole thing with grafting glue (Doc Farwell) to help hold in all the moisture.


Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:55 pm
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
Yes I understand about keeping the tips in the right direction. I was meaning whether or not I should stagger the graft cuts to not have them the same direction. I am going to do both grafts at once. That is what this test is all about. We will see how it works.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:19 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Willamette Valley near Scio
Post Re: Interstem grafting
I cannot think of a reason that orientation of graft cuts would make any ultimate difference. Maybe do a few one way, and a few the other to see?

I have read that full interstem effect is only achieved when the interstem is 15 to 18 inches long. So doing an inch or two is probably pi$$in in the wind!


Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:22 pm
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
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Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
That seems like a long interstem. Earlier in this thread someone said 4-7 inches. As I look around I seem to find 12-15 inches or so. I will have to do more research. Thanks for the heads up.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:08 pm
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 237
Location: SW Portland, Oregon, USA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
Here's a picture of the grafting job Viron did. I guess it's about 9 inches long.

Image

And in case it is lost in the FB cache:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4 ... =724538372

You can also see he did it in opposing directions. I looked back on my notes, and actually I'm not sure if the base is M7 or Antonovka. I thought it was Antonovka, but my notes say M7, and that sounds familiar. So this is: M7 + B9 + Honeycrisp.

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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:58 pm
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
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Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
Thanks for the pic. I will study it. One thing I have read is that you likely want to plant the lower graft below the soil line.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:04 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 pm
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Location: Willamette Valley near Scio
Post Re: Interstem grafting
Quote:
That seems like a long interstem. Earlier in this thread someone said 4-7 inches. As I look around I seem to find 12-15 inches or so. I will have to do more research. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah it is a long interstem. That is why I find it easier to just grow the interstem for a season or two prior to mounting the final cultivar.

If you are a nusery where $$ and turnaround is everything, you won't be able to stay in business. But for the homegrower, patience is everything.

Besides, on a new rootstock, you are not gonna get a 10 foot tree the first season, no matter what you graft on it!
The rootmass in the soil can only do so much from season to season until a critical mass is built and you are pruning wood off the top every year.

So I really don't see much detriment in terms of lag time of the tree to maturity, it's just a matter of priorities and where you are ultimately headed with your idea!

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but always time to do it right the second time. I used to hear that line when I swung hammers!


Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:50 am
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
I am thinking this is going to get to be a long process. I will do some at one time and do some a year apart and keep notes and take pics and see what happens. I am just playing anyway. If it comes to nothing then its been fun. But if the test reveals some useful information then it can be shared for others to learn from. Thanks for all the inputs.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:44 am
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:30 pm
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Post Re: Interstem grafting
Hi, coming in late on this thread, but when I ran across it earlier this winter I was inspired to try grafting interstem trees all at once instead of over two seasons... which I probably would have done anyway because I'm such a rebel 8) Anyway, the results of my experiment can be seen or followed on my blog here http://turkeysong.wordpress.com/2010/07 ... big-roots/ The short version is that it worked great. My few losses are probably due to weak scion wood and I don't think I would have lost any interstem grafts if I hadn't picked the shoots off the bud 9 and m 111 trying to get the hesitant scions to grow. The trees are growing very nicely in the nursery row and all but a few stragglers will be ready for the ground this winter. I'm left wondering why anyone would do it over two years as with proper precautions the interstem can be preserved even if the top fails. Maybe there is some economic/efficiency reason, but..... I'm unable to think of what it would be. Anyway, thanks for the information all!


Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:43 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: Interstem grafting
I'm left wondering why anyone would do it over two years as with proper precautions the interstem can be preserved even if the top fails. Maybe there is some economic/efficiency reason, but..... I'm unable to think of what it would be.

If the interstem is done in a ‘commercial process’ it’s likely budded, requiring two years. You can’t make two bud grafts at once - and I don’t know how many ‘commercial grafters’ can/will do two bench grafts (whip & tongue) at once? I’ve watched migrant field grafters Bud, but never known them to bench graft in the dormant season.

Is there that much of a market for interstem fruit trees..? If so, it sounds like an excellent opportunity for us bench grafters to capture it :P

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Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:16 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Yamhill County, Oregon
Post Re: Interstem grafting
As several of the Masters Gardener’s got excited (if not sidetracked) over interstem grafting at yesterday’s pruning demonstration (for the Yamhill County Master Gardeners near Grand Island), here’s a thread going over many of the details - any questions, log on ~

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Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:42 am
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:49 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Rochester, WA
Post Re: Interstem grafting
I tried double interstem grafts on 3 trees last year. On 2, only the first graft took. The 3rd both took. The Bud9 intertem is about 10 inches long. All 3 trees grew well but the double graft grew 50% more than the other 2. All 3 trees received the same attention as they are in one 4' x 4' raised bed. If I try it again, I will laways do both grafts at the same time.

I should add the double graft is about 6-7 foot tall after the first year.

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Zone 6 or 7 - Greg in Rochester, WA.


Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:53 am
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